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May 13, 2005 14:11:08 GMT -5
Post by Pay No Mind on May 13, 2005 14:11:08 GMT -5
People have believed in a higher power for millions(?) of years...I mean if it's not true then why would they still believe it today? and there actually is proof that some of the stuff that's in the bible did actually happen...
Well see what I meant with the God will give you what you want just not everything....I meant that if you asked for a million dollars that he isn't just going to give it to you...but if maybe you asked for something practical that you really needed that he would..I mean he doesn't all the time...Of course...because if he did then the world would just be...too...crazy....but like you said something about that homeless people and stuff...Maybe they don't get what they need now but one day they will get everything they need...
but that brings me to a whole other topic which would be death...
But anyway when I said that I wasn't talking about those people...I was just talking about how you can't just pray to God when you want your team to win the superbowl...
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May 13, 2005 19:11:08 GMT -5
Post by DCOTN on May 13, 2005 19:11:08 GMT -5
But how does that work? What do you see God as? As a spiritual being who is part of each of us, or some greater being proped up in Heaven?
And as for what you said up there ^^, how could that work? I guess it all depends on what you see God as, but.. If i prayed for a dying sibling to get better, chances are they won't. And if they do, there's probably a medical reason for it etc. But I don't mean to say, science is mightier than beliefs in God, I'm just wondering what you meant by that He'd give us practical things..
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May 13, 2005 19:34:08 GMT -5
Post by Pay No Mind on May 13, 2005 19:34:08 GMT -5
I said he might...
He doesn't always give people what they ask for and I never said he did...Why? I have no idea...but I see him more as a part of all of us...not just as one "being proped up in Heaven"
You're probably right that he wouldn't make your family member get better...not unless you truly believed he would....besides if it was that person's time to go...it was their time to go...some people just aren't meant to live as long as their family want them to...
There's proof of the existance of God and there is proof that he doesn't exist...
I just think there is too much proof that he does...I mean...how else would you explain some of the things that happen?....science can't explain everything...yes it can explain a heck of a lot of stuff...but there are some areas that it can't...
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May 14, 2005 0:13:15 GMT -5
Post by ria on May 14, 2005 0:13:15 GMT -5
There's proof of the existance of God and there is proof that he doesn't exist... I just think there is too much proof that he does...I mean...how else would you explain some of the things that happen?....science can't explain everything...yes it can explain a heck of a lot of stuff...but there are some areas that it can't... one--where is this proof? and two--if you really researched, you'd find science can just about explain everything.
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May 14, 2005 10:10:45 GMT -5
Post by Pay No Mind on May 14, 2005 10:10:45 GMT -5
I know that science can explain a lot of stuff...I said that...but it can't explain everything...
There is proof...they have remains of things..like Noah's arc...and some other stuff...I don't know all of what they have...
And still if God didn't exist then why have people believed in him for so long? Why have people built whole ways of life around it? Why would people devote their life to something that wasn't there?
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May 14, 2005 15:38:51 GMT -5
Post by && We Will Become Silhouettes on May 14, 2005 15:38:51 GMT -5
The Bible as I know it is a timeline with foot notes.
that is not why I believe in God.
God was first brought to my attention by my parents.
But you see the Bible is a history book. It brings to the readers attention things that happened. no problem there. The real controversy is that they say there was a divine interception with certain events. Why do I believe it? I'm not sure. As Bunny said it's nice to know that someone is watching over you. but as you say, God isn't watching over everyone or so it seems.
I can't really answer any of this, but I mean I fervently believe in Ghosts, somewhat witches, supernatural beings, and abnormal things happening. now Witches and Wizards were the early alchemists as our Chem teacher has told us. And there are probably explanations for Werewolves and Vampires and so on. Vampires as me and Bunny know are sometimes debated as the early diabetics just souped up a bit. and Werewolves were probably really hairy people... that's ok Now there are also many explanations for Ghosts. something in the air, smoke, and your eyes playing tricks on you. and I'm sure I could sit here and read you completely disprove Ghosts.
but I can also 'see' you are more of a seeing is believing. I'm not. I believe in things I can't see. And maybe that's because I'd rather not see, or I have great hope that there are things, better or worse than this plane of reality. but I will just as soon listen to a scientific explanation and contemplate pros and cons, and the one that seems more sensible. Most times as you can imagine Science wins.
but you can't beat hope. maybe people believe in God, because they want to believe, they want something better. Scientific explanations just aren't enough sometimes.
And before people knew about atoms, and molecules, and matter they wanted an explanation but didn't have the scientific resources to explain. They created a supreme being, which in return created them and their surroundings, and it's just a really catching idea. So it's passed down in many forms and it goes strong today because a lot of people I know do not like science.
now I'm sure you have some questions ... and I'm pretty sure I didn't explain it like I wanted to, and I'm not sure if it even made sense... so...
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May 14, 2005 18:56:24 GMT -5
Post by Pay No Mind on May 14, 2005 18:56:24 GMT -5
Even science hasn't proved that there isn't a God....Yeah maybe it shows that the bible is wrong...like how people came to be...but that still doesn't say that there is no God...
And I agree with Erin....Maybe people want something to believe in..Maybe they like thinking that when they die they are going somewhere better than here....I mean....When my aunt died..I didn't cry right away...The first thought in my head was "She's in a better place now.." I didn't cry until I realized I wasn't going to see her again...It's comforting nowing that there is something better...
As for why God doesn't give you everything....If it's not supposed to happen it's not going to...
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ria
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May 15, 2005 0:04:21 GMT -5
Post by ria on May 15, 2005 0:04:21 GMT -5
there's no possible way to prove that God does not exist, just as there is no possible way to prove he does. However, evidence, it seems, is a lot more favorable in God not existing than him being real. to me it looks that way anyway.
again, I disagree. first of all, jesus himself had nothing to do with the bible, and history shows the bible has been altered and changed many, many times, creating something of which is now hard to decipher fact from fiction. the bible is more of a political thing, having been created to bring more power unto the christian church, ie the pope. most stories spoken of in the bible are very much as believable as, again, greek mythology. it has been proved impossible for hte whole world to flood at one time, not to mention one man building a boat that would survive said flood, and having the capabilities to gather every animal in existance in PAIRS and recreate the world's population in a small space of time.
i don't understand why people think God gives them things. it really bothers me when you see athletes and whoever on the tv, like "i thank the lord, all this is because of the lord." why would god have anything to do with something so trivial as a basketball game? people should start realizing that if they are well off, it is because they worked hard (or stole, whatever) to get where they are, and if they are in a bad spot it's because they made bad decisions along the way. if there is a god, i can very well understand divine interference in someone important, like a prophet or somebody unknowingly destined for something great. but divinity present in mere mortals and people living everyday lives? why? it's highly unlikely.
people have been very misled. very. habits of old have found their way into modern society, because that's what they are--habits. and like you said, it is in human nature to question things. people look to something bigger and stronger than themselves for guidance, because they can't face the fact that maybe, just maybe, this is all there is.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. Oh! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" - Da Vinci
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May 15, 2005 9:11:16 GMT -5
Post by && We Will Become Silhouettes on May 15, 2005 9:11:16 GMT -5
Da Vinci was a very smart man....
I meant the bible when it was first written was like a History book. and even then I know some things sound very improbable but Greek Mythology came from somewhere and so does the events in the bible. And that's why I don't really read the bible and I don't real use it for reference...Because it's accounted and written by only a handful of perspectives. some incorrect and some correct. and since you brought up Noah's Arc. that may be the elaborate form of a flood, a tsunami maybe that surrounded Noah with water. maybe not the whole world mind you but just around Noah. and the animals, well maybe he brought his horses, and his dogs, and brought as many as he could on a ship that he built. I'm me I'm not one that makes theories well but I mean there are number of possibilities that made Noah's Arc be true...and any other events in the bible true, also.
I've been thinking about what Bunny said, why so many still believe in God. I saw a thing on dragons a month or so ago and the teaser said, "If Dragons didn't exist then why have there been so many accounts, and so many identical identifications of Dragons?"
and just change the "Dragon" to "God". I mean some mentally unstable people have said that God has spoken to them. some of those sick and delirius have said that God has spoken to them. over the years that is. and yes even I would say heck they're crazy.. what's that have to do with anything but just think about it. with that many different accounts and accounts coming from stable, sane people. I don't know...because I'm just contradicting myself because I think everyone's crazy.. but yeah.. I'm not the one to be saying so bah...
Science and Religion will be going at it for years, and until "Judgement Day" or until one of those many end-of-the-world theories happen , then we'll know but we'll all be dead so really...
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May 15, 2005 12:19:02 GMT -5
Post by Pay No Mind on May 15, 2005 12:19:02 GMT -5
It didn't flood the whole world...but I see what you mean...but they really did find remains of the arc....
See..It flooded the land he was on so he gathered the animals he had...then he set sail or whatever until he found land....so there where probably animals already there...and people....Yeah I dunno the whole story but that is what I am going with..
I have always thought that way....like what I said that God isn't going to make your team win the superbowl....But it really irrtates me when someone's loved on dies and they blame it on God....Like this one lady's daughter was murdered and she was all like "I blame God!" and I was just like....God didn't kill your daughter..the murderer did..He didn't come down and murder her himself....And like you are saying..God didn't come down and play that basketball game for them....They did it on their own....
Yes..and it makes it that much easier to face the fact that we are going to die one day....Death is something that we can count on because no matter what we are going to die..There is no way to stop it...
If you ask me that is kind of terrifying...and I think it helps to atleast think that there is something more..It just makes it easier...
that's why I have said like a millions times that the bible is not there for you to live your life by...
My cousin's boyfriend was shot like five times by his father or step father....(I don't know the story that well..) But anyway...He almost died....And he was sitting in my backyard telling us this story..and he said that when he was in the hospital on the verge of death...He didn't see a white light.....He was seeing the other side...He said it scared him..and it really made him rethink his life...Now He didn't run off and devote his life to God or anything..but he got away from some of the stuff that he had been involved with...
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ria
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May 15, 2005 21:03:35 GMT -5
Post by ria on May 15, 2005 21:03:35 GMT -5
i know somebody who went crazy and said god talked to him. he was in our house looking around all wide-eyed and we didn't know why, and later when he was in his right mind he said god told him we were all demons. so he thought we were demons or something...
it's very weird, and the brain is the most complicated thing on earth. it could be people's minds just fucking with them...
I agree. death terrifies me, and sometimes i just wish i could believe in these things everybody else believes in. but i just can't change who i am, and i'm not gonna force myself to stand by things i don't agree with. that's why i love debating, religion especially, because i think it's great how everybody has their own views and beliefs, and i think, if nothing else, you should stand by those no matter what. like, i may not agree with what you say, but i respect you for having your own opinion. i'm sure somebody said that somewhere, i just don't know who...
but, going back to this thing here--what do you mean by other side? he saw hell? (i'm suddenly fascinated by this...)
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May 16, 2005 13:52:19 GMT -5
Post by && We Will Become Silhouettes on May 16, 2005 13:52:19 GMT -5
Voltaire sort of said that.. and I'm sure many other people have said that over time...
I want to know too.. did he say what he saw?
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May 16, 2005 14:13:46 GMT -5
Post by Pay No Mind on May 16, 2005 14:13:46 GMT -5
First of all...
I <3 that part right there.....
Anyway...
Yes....That's what I mean...he said it terrified him....
I think he might becoming back to my house in June or July....So...If it somehow gets brung up again I can ask him more about it....
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May 16, 2005 14:16:50 GMT -5
Post by && We Will Become Silhouettes on May 16, 2005 14:16:50 GMT -5
ooooooooooooooooooh...
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ria
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May 16, 2005 14:34:31 GMT -5
Post by ria on May 16, 2005 14:34:31 GMT -5
man, that must have been scary as shit. and it makes you think, because it wasnt the cliche white tunnel thing, he saw something way different. so thats weird...
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